Fwd: Re: [ngw] Off Topic (but not really)

Rick Liljenquist rliljenquist at myrealbox.com
Wed Dec 19 15:56:00 UTC 2001



>>> Sara Radicati<sara at radicati.com> 12/19/01 09:48AM >>>
Hi,

I am not sure who you are ... however, here are some answers to your
question:

1. The TCO research we just published was sponsored by MS.

2. As part of that they proivded us with 5 customer references to interview
for the study.

3. The data we published was obtained through interviews with those 5
customers.

4. We have shown, reviewed and discussed the results of the interviews with
MS.

Best regards,
Sara
************
Sara Radicati, President & CEO
The Radicati Group, Inc.
595 Lytton Ave.
Palo Alto, CA 94301
ph: (650) 322-8059 x.11
fax: (650) 322-8061
http://www.radicati.com 

----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Liljenquist <rliljenquist at myrealbox.com>
To: <ngw at ngwlist.com>
Cc: <sara at radicati.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 6:59 AM
Subject: Re: [ngw] Off Topic (but not really)


Maybe we should ask Sara Radicati at the Radicati group. Sara?


>>> Dondi Williams<Donwil at mgc-mbc.com> 12/19/01 07:59AM >>>

From: Dondi Williams<Donwil at mgc-mbc.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 7:59 AM
To: ngw at ngwlist.com 
Subject: Re: [ngw] Off Topic (but not really)
Priority: Normal

Who the hell is running these surveys? Are they looking in M$ customer
database to find customers to survey.



Dondi L. Williams  CHA, CNA, CNS, CUA
Director, Management Information Systems
S. H. Leggitt Co.
512-396-0707 - voice
512-396-2217 - fax
donwil at mgc-mbc.com 

>>> trodgers at ducks.org 12/19/01 07:08AM >>>

I'll take security over functionality any day of the week.  What good is
functionality if you are down most of the time trying to clean viruses off
of an Exchange server?



_____________________________________
Todd Rodgers
CCNA, MCSE, CNA-4, Groupwise CNA-5, CCA
Manager of Network Operations
trodgers at ducks.org 
Ducks Unlimited, Inc.
901-758-3888

This message was sent using GroupWise 5.5, Superior, Collaborative,
Messaging from Novell - The e-Directory people

>>> ybiloque at europarl.eu.int 12/19/01 02:54AM >>>
Why speak about security, MS is spooking about functionality :-)))

Here after the content of a slide see during a Microsoft meeting some day
ago :

"...

Why organizations are migrating to Exchange 2000 from GroupWise

    Many customers are uncertain about the future viability of GroupWise

    The Ferris Research Corporate email Market Survey March 2001***

    Exchange was the overall market leader in deployed seats; by 16:1 over
GroupWise in 2000, increasing to 30:1 in 2001

    GroupWise market share declines by 50% between 2000 and 2001

    Fortune 1000 Messaging Deployment and Procurement Plans, 2001-2003*****
The Radicati Group

    Only 3% of surveyed companies use GroupWise

            GroupWise has less than a 1% market share by number of seats.

            GroupWise 6 is an Exchange 55 (not Exchange 2000) catch-up
release.

·         Virtually all of the new features (such as online backup and
restore, mailbox quotas, support for Internet standards such as SSL, SNMP,
S/MIME v3, NNTP,) are already part of Exchange 55, which was released 3
years ago.

·         Critical messaging system features such as transaction logging,
(that guarantees that no messages are ever lost,) are not part of GroupWise
6 but promised for the next major release.

·Instant Messaging is not provided as it is in Exchange 55/2000, but
promised for the next major release; until then Groupwise customers will
have to buy and integrate third party solutions.

    Many Novell customers are migrating to Windows 2000 and Active Directory

    Continued use of GroupWise mandates use of both NDS and AD

    Fortune 1000 Messaging Deployment and Procurement Plans, 2001-2003*****
The Radicati Group

    Over 50% of surveyed customers use either the Exchange 55 Directory or
the Windows 2000 Active Directory. Only 10% use Novell NDS

    31% of surveyed customers are planning to migrate to a new directory in
the next 18 months, 42% to the Active Directory and only 8% to NDS

·         GroupWise 6 requires NetWare, effectively "locking it out" of
non-Novell organizations, despite their "cross platform" claims. The
existing GroupWise user base is almost exclusively found in organizations
that use Novell networking solutions, a shrinking population.

·         GroupWise 6 requires Novell's eDirectory, but doesn't actually use
eDirectory natively, requiring user information and passwords to be stored
twice. Organizations that don't use Novell eDirectory - that use Windows
Networking solutions for example - must synchronize 3 directories, (the
Windows directory, NDS and the Groupwise directory, whose synchronization
with NDS is at least automatically handled,) with all the attendant network
and administrative overhead that multiple directory synchronization incurs.

    GroupWise 6 does not use Microsoft Management Console, instead requiring
the use of multiple Administration Consoles, (ConsoleOne, GroupWise
Monitor,) in addition to MMC, hugely adding to administration TCO.

    The GroupWise Mail client is low in feature/functionality compared to
Outlook

    Workflow tools and Contact Management are still not provided except as
third party add-ons.

    There is no integrated support for online meetings.

    Office integration is very poor with:

    No support for SendTo Office Routing Recipients, SendTo GroupWise Folder

    No application integration with Office documents and properties, which
are simply treated as attachments

    GroupWise 6 has no equivalent to Office 2000 Team Folder Wizard or
Office XP SharePoint Team Services.

    GroupWise has poor web-based collaboration features with no support for

    Instant Messaging features in Exchange 55/2000.

    Audio/video conferencing features in Exchange 2000 Conference Server.

    The GroupWare Server is much less scalable and robust than Exchange 2000

    At Brainshare Novell said that GroupWare 6 could possibly support 2,000
online messaging users per Post Office. At Microsoft's corporate campus
3,700 users are supported on each Exchange 2000 messaging server.

    Touted performance enhancements for Caching mode are proportionately the
same as for Outlook users in offline mode.

    The Outlook client is by far the industry standard mail client

    The Ferris Research Corporate email Market Survey March 2001***

    Between Sep 2000 and Sep 2001 Outlook's market share grows from 46% to
57%, in the same period the GroupWise client's share drops from 3% to 2%

    Exchange is better integrated with Windows, Office, IE and the Microsoft
application development platform

..."



>>> EMAIL at co.pierce.wa.us 17/12/01 20:36:10 >>>
Wouldn't that number for GroupWise be the total for the entire history of
GroupWise?  (and try comparing that Outlook's entire history of security
problems)

Rochelle

>>> G.Ross at ccw.gov.uk 12/15/2001 12:40:05 am >>>
Number of security problems with Novell GroupWise over the past year or
so: 2
Number of security problems with Outlook over the past year or so: Lost
count.

Maybe there's light at the end of the tunnel...

GTG

>>> EMAIL at co.pierce.wa.us 12/14/01 07:06pm >>>
As long as Microsoft keeps up its sloppy practices, Novell may never
have to do any more marketing.  Have you seen this one?

http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/12/07/011207hnoutlookhole.xml 


I thought it was pretty hysterical.

Rochelle A. Adsitt
Pierce County Information Services

>>> G.Ross at ccw.gov.uk 12/14/2001 8:41:52 am >>>
What's this, an agressive marking campaign from Novell.... I thought
I'd
never live to see it.

GTG

>>> trodgers at ducks.org 14/12/2001 13:48:54 >>>
Anyone seen this site?  I was meeting with my Novell rep. yesterday
and
she mentioned this to me.

www.whytheylie.com 



_____________________________________
Todd Rodgers
CCNA, MCSE, CNA-4, Groupwise CNA-5, CCA
Manager of Network Operations
trodgers at ducks.org 
Ducks Unlimited, Inc.
901-758-3888h that use Windows Networking solutions for example - must
synchro

This message was sent using GroupWise 5.5, Superior, Collaborative,
Messaging from Novell - The e-Directory people

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