[ngw] GroupWise migration

Eric Feldman Efeldman at garlandisd.net
Wed Jan 21 18:06:26 UTC 2009


I have a similar view as Gregg. Because we have a mix of clustered and non-clustered GW postoffices (we are currently a distributed architecture with 80+ sites), we decided to just use the same virtual ip addressing for network services at every site, cluster or not, for consistencies sake.  So any site's GW postoffice is running on 10.sitecode.101.50 and local DNS is always 10.sitecode.101.4, or the local iprint is always available at 10.sitecode.101.2 (or <sitename>print via DNS) - that flexibility has come in handy as we have had to work around crashed servers or planned for collapsing services at a site, plus just explaining to techs and users (and the Cisco folks for setting IP helpers and such) where things are in the "new" system.
 
We kind of fell into that scenario at the time because we needed it for the clustered sites, but it has actually made documentation and troubleshooting easier.  Plus we have an easy path to moving services around locally at a site (or if we ever decided to cluster a non-clustered site).  
 
Down the road as we start to edge into server consolidation back here at the NOC I plan to use the same approach as we bring services back here, just on a system-wide level.
 
Of course we left a nice big reserved range of addresses for the network service addresses (we have 1/3 of the "server address block" reserved at each site) but we haven't had more than 15 service addresses at any site yet....so unless we add another 240+ services we should be ok :).  For the NOC we'll have to look at it a bit more carefully, but it should still be workable.
 
It's a scheme worth considering for larger/more complicated networks in any case...honestly I would probably apply it to any system over 1-2 servers though.
 
 
 
 
 
 
Eric Feldman
Garland ISD Technology
Network Engineer
efeldman at garlandisd.net 



>>> "Gregg A. Hinchman" <Gregg at HinchmanConsulting.com> 1/21/2009 9:35 AM >>>
Sure life is always easiest when you take the path of least resistence.  Single IP with standard ports -as the install gives you and the Bind are the easiest and work well in small shops.  But as you grow a system -you have to have some 'planning' and 'documentation' for a non-standard implementation.
 
In my case -and its just me saying this -I find it far easier in the long run to do the multiple IP addresses:
 
DOMAIN MTA: 192.168.1.20
MTA TCP Port: 7120
MTA HTTP Port: 3820
PO POA: 192.168.1.22
POA TCP Port: 7222
POA HTTP Port: 2822
 
....and on....
 
Then just document this in both the eDir objects and in a configuration report.  Something I do for all my customers.
 
I decided on this because working late nights -I would get a bit tired and forget IP addresses or ports.  So I found this worked great to stop that problem -because I could look to the (NetWare) Agents -that would show the IP and ports.  The other reason I went this route was because when it came to moving GroupWise -if you give the email system its own subnet -and assign well-designed, documented IP addresses/ports -the move is easy and less affect to end users.  Nothing worse then changing IP addresses.  Or rather -no need.
 
Again -its my way of doing things.  And while I give customers the option -they almost always see the long-term benefit.
 
Take Care.
 
Gregg A. Hinchman 
Consultant
Gregg at HinchmanConsulting.com ( mailto:Gregg at HinchmanConsulting.com )
www.HinchmanConsulting.com ( http://www.hinchmanconsulting.com/ )
A Novell Consulting Partner
317.329.0288 Office
413.254.2819 eFax
 
"Courage is doing what is right." 

"Do not be bound to any doctrine, theory or ideology, even Buddhist ones. All systems of thought are guiding means, not absolute truth."  Thich Nhat Hanh, Vietnamese monk.

Book Travel @: www.booknewtravelnow.com ( http://www.booknewtravelnow.com/ )


>>> 


From: Joseph Marton<jmmarton at gmail.com>
To:Gregg at hinchmanconsulting.com, ngw at ngwlist.com 
Date: 1/21/2009 10:24 AM
Subject: Re: [ngw] GroupWise migration
Oh gee that would never happen, would it? :-)

That's one reason I'm more of a fan of using a single IP with multiple ports.  It still takes a bit to study the configuration in order to understand it if there's little or no documentation, but at least it doesn't take long to grasp things when you realize all these services are running on a single IP.  But if a person sees multiple IPs *and* stuff running on custom ports, then he/she may wonder what the reasoning is.  >From a security standpoint, though, it's a great idea.  The security guys would rather everything run on non-standard ports.

Joe

On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 9:19 AM, Gregg A. Hinchman <Gregg at hinchmanconsulting.com> wrote:


Until a service pack breaks the Bind.  :))
 
Take Care.
 
Gregg A. Hinchman 
Consultant
Gregg at HinchmanConsulting.com ( mailto:Gregg at HinchmanConsulting.com )
www.HinchmanConsulting.com ( http://www.hinchmanconsulting.com/ )
A Novell Consulting Partner
317.329.0288 Office
413.254.2819 eFax
 
"Courage is doing what is right." 

"Do not be bound to any doctrine, theory or ideology, even Buddhist ones. All systems of thought are guiding means, not absolute truth."  Thich Nhat Hanh, Vietnamese monk.

Book Travel @: www.booknewtravelnow.com ( http://www.booknewtravelnow.com/ )


>>> 


From: Joseph Marton<jmmarton at gmail.com>
To:ngw at ngwlist.com 
Date: 1/21/2009 6:48 AM
Subject: Re: [ngw] GroupWise migration
IMO the port numbers could make things confusing, and really isn't necessary if binding to different IPs.

Joe

On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 5:39 AM, Gert <gwcheck at gmail.com> wrote:


Agree here too. 


Gert

GWCheck.com - "the best GW site" (Tay Kratzer)
skype:GWCheck
visit www.gwcheck.com ( http://www.gwcheck.com/ )

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http://groupwiser.net/info - http://gwavanation.com ( http://gwavanation.com/ ) - http://www.ngwlist.com ( http://www.ngwlist.com/ )



On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 11:09 PM, Morris Blackham <Morris.Blackham at messagingarchitects.com> wrote:


It's just Gregg's OCD tendencies rising to the surface :>)  but in practice it's actually easy to figure out what's what.

MB

>>> On 2009-01-20 at 14:57, "Joseph Marton" <jmmarton at gmail.com> wrote:
> Sounds overly complicated to me. :-)
>
> Joe
>
> On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 3:47 PM, Gregg A. Hinchman <
> Gregg at hinchmanconsulting.com> wrote:
>
>>  I like to complicate matters by assigning each Agent its own IP address
>> and then using the last 2 digits of the IP address for the last 2 digits of
>> the Port's for that agent.  Easier to move the agents to a new box and none
>> of that silly Bind Exclusive stuff is needed, per se.  I still use it.
>>
>>  Take Care.
>>
>> Gregg A. Hinchman
>> Consultant
>> *G*regg at HinchmanConsulting.com <Gregg at HinchmanConsulting.com>
>> www.HinchmanConsulting.com ( http://www.hinchmanconsulting.com/ ) <http://www.hinchmanconsulting.com/>
>> A Novell Consulting Partner
>> 317.329.0288 Office
>> 413.254.2819 eFax
>>
>> "Courage is doing what is right."
>>
>> "Do not be bound to any doctrine, theory or ideology, even Buddhist ones.
>> All systems of thought are guiding means, not absolute truth."  Thich Nhat
>> Hanh, Vietnamese monk.
>>
>> Book Travel @: www.booknewtravelnow.com ( http://www.booknewtravelnow.com/ )
>>
>>
>> >>>
>>     *From: * Joseph Marton<jmmarton at gmail.com> *To:* ngw at ngwlist.com *Date:
>> * 1/20/2009 4:38 PM
>>  *Subject: * Re: [ngw] GroupWise migration
>> I like port 7125.  It's easier to remember IMO.  Plus if you have multiple
>> MTAs or POAs on a single box you could wind up using (or wanting to use)
>> 7102 for those agents.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 3:23 PM, Tim Heywood <tim at nds8.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> 0 is the default - so what do you want to do?  You and I know that MTP
>>> is the right way to go, so what should be do for MTP on a GWIA ???   The
>>> MTA uses 7100.  The POA uses 7101   So I use 7102 for the GWIA.
>>>
>>> Works very nicely as a standard ;-)
>>>
>>> T
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Tim Heywood
>>> NDS8
>>> Novell Platinum Solution Provider
>>>
>>> Office:  +44 (0) 131 538 8202
>>> Mobile:  +44 (0) 7974 134264
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >>> On 19 January, 2009 at 04:17, "Scott Kunau" <skunau at igtg.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>  > 0 is correct.  I had a couple of instances of the GWIA object not
>>> being
>>> > created on OESv1 clustered Linux using GW7.x but haven't seen the
>>> issue rear
>>> > its head on OESv2 or GW8 yet.  Are you having any LDAP issues?
>>> >
>>> >>>> "Keith Larson" <klarson at K12GROUP.NET> 1/15/2009 4:28 PM >>>
>>> > i have been struggling getting gwia to install properly on linux at
>>> another
>>> > client also.  is there some trick?  i get the feeling that it is
>>> related to
>>> > the MTP port that it prompts for.  the default is 0, is that right?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>>> "Keith Larson" <klarson at K12GROUP.NET> 1/15/2009 4:10 PM >>>
>>> > only about 10 users....
>>> >
>>> > i did the whole migration in my lab and it went perfectly.  i did a
>>> gw8 on
>>> > nw to gw8 on linux both in different trees.
>>> > mta is fine
>>> > poa is fine
>>> > webacc is fine
>>> > gwia will not install correctly.  it keeps creating the edirectory
>>> object,
>>> > but won't create the object in the groupwise system.  what am i
>>> missing?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Keith Larson
>>> > Franklin Computer Services - K12 Group
>>> > (614) 561-4887
>>> > klarson at k12group.net 
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>>> "Gregg A. Hinchman" <Gregg at HinchmanConsulting.com> 1/15/2009 3:22
>>> PM >>>
>>> > Yeah and even then....
>>> >
>>> > Not sure how many users you are dealing with -but if you really want
>>> to be
>>> > 'fresh' you might consider even a new post office and move users.
>>> You just
>>> > have to 'span' your GW system across two trees but creating a new
>>> domain in
>>> > the new tree -then create a new po, domains, gateways in the new tree
>>> -move
>>> > users, delete old -after updating new domain to primary.  lots of
>>> fun.  :)
>>> >
>>> > Take Care.
>>> >
>>> > Gregg A. Hinchman
>>> > Consultant
>>> > Gregg at HinchmanConsulting.com ( mailto:Gregg at HinchmanConsulting.com )
>>> > www.HinchmanConsulting.com ( http://www.hinchmanconsulting.com/ ) ( http://www.hinchmanconsulting.com/ )
>>>  > A Novell Consulting Partner
>>> > 317.329.0288 Office
>>> > 413.254.2819 eFax
>>> >
>>> > "Courage is doing what is right."
>>> >
>>> > "Do not be bound to any doctrine, theory or ideology, even Buddhist
>>> ones.
>>> > All systems of thought are guiding means, not absolute truth."  Thich
>>> Nhat
>>> > Hanh, Vietnamese monk.
>>> >
>>> > Book Travel @: www.booknewtravelnow.com ( http://www.booknewtravelnow.com/ )
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > From: Keith Larson<klarson at K12GROUP.NET>
>>> > To:ngw at ngwlist.com ( mailto:To%3Angw at ngwlist.com ) <To%3Angw at ngwlist.com ( mailto:To%253Angw at ngwlist.com )>
>>> > Date: 1/15/2009 3:19 PM
>>> > Subject: Re: [ngw] GroupWise migration
>>> > found it.  it doesn't appear unless you have the tree selected in
>>> > ConsoleOne.... tricky.
>>> >
>>> >>>> "Keith Larson" <klarson at K12GROUP.NET> 1/15/2009 3:11 PM >>>
>>> > The catch is that they are each servers in their own tree.  I want to
>>> start
>>> > fresh with OES2SP1 and not bring all the junk.
>>> > It seemed to go fine.  I can connect to the new groupwise system, but
>>> when I
>>> > try to graft the groupwise objects into the new tree it reports that
>>>
>>> > eDirectory doesn't have the GroupWise schema.  I can't seem to find
>>> where to
>>> > install the GW8 schema.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Keith Larson
>>> > Franklin Computer Services - K12 Group
>>> > (614) 561-4887
>>> > klarson at k12group.net 
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>>> "Gregg A. Hinchman" <Gregg at HinchmanConsulting.com> 1/15/2009 2:45
>>> PM >>>
>>> > I got an article on it --except I call it 'moving' not migrating.
>>> And I often
>>> > do a 'two step' when taking from old hardware to new with an GW
>>> upgrade
>>> > involved.  It goes down as the old GW moves and comes up as the new.
>>> >
>>> > http://www.hinchmanconsulting.com/Articles.php  -look under the Best
>>>
>>> > Practices section.
>>> >
>>> > If your NW to LX -then use the Novell GW Migration util
>>> > If your NW to NW -I like the Novell Consolidation util -simple and
>>> easy
>>> > And just for fun -if your NW to Windows -Beyond Compare 3.
>>> >
>>> > Take Care.
>>> >
>>> > Gregg A. Hinchman
>>> > Consultant
>>> > Gregg at HinchmanConsulting.com ( mailto:Gregg at HinchmanConsulting.com )
>>> > www.HinchmanConsulting.com ( http://www.hinchmanconsulting.com/ ) ( http://www.hinchmanconsulting.com/ )
>>>  > A Novell Consulting Partner
>>> > 317.329.0288 Office
>>> > 413.254.2819 eFax
>>> >
>>> > "Courage is doing what is right."
>>> >
>>> > "Do not be bound to any doctrine, theory or ideology, even Buddhist
>>> ones.
>>> > All systems of thought are guiding means, not absolute truth."  Thich
>>> Nhat
>>> > Hanh, Vietnamese monk.
>>> >
>>> > Book Travel @: www.booknewtravelnow.com ( http://www.booknewtravelnow.com/ )
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > From: Keith Larson<klarson at K12GROUP.NET>
>>> > To:ngw at ngwlist.com ( mailto:To%3Angw at ngwlist.com ) <To%3Angw at ngwlist.com ( mailto:To%253Angw at ngwlist.com )>
>>> > Date: 1/15/2009 2:38 PM
>>> > Subject: Re: [ngw] GroupWise migration
>>> > that was my plan.  it seems pretty simple and works fast.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Keith Larson
>>> > Franklin Computer Services - K12 Group
>>> > (614) 561-4887
>>> > klarson at k12group.net 
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>>> Gert <gwcheck at gmail.com> 1/15/2009 2:34 PM >>>
>>> > do the dbcopy migration.
>>> > see http://gwcheck.com/dpml/linux-migration 
>>> >
>>> > Gert
>>> >
>>> > GWCheck.com - "the best GW site" (Tay Kratzer)
>>> > skype:GWCheck
>>> > visit www.gwcheck.com ( http://www.gwcheck.com/ )
>>> >
>>> > join the GW community
>>> > http://groupwiser.net/info - http://gwavanation.com ( http://gwavanation.com/ ) -
>>> http://www.ngwlist.com ( http://www.ngwlist.com/ )
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 8:30 PM, Keith Larson <klarson at k12group.net>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I have read a number of TID on the topic and it is generally
>>> > straightforward.  I'm testing the process in my lab and it seems ok,
>>> but I'm
>>> > combining several changes into one and the TID talk about the
>>> separately.
>>> > I'm wondering if anyone has done all of them together.
>>> >
>>> > I have a GroupWise 6 system on a NetWare 6.5 SP7 server that needs to
>>>  be
>>> > migrated to new hardware that is already setup in a new tree running
>>>
>>> > OES2SP1/SLES10SP2.
>>> >
>>> > Migrating GroupWise from NetWare to OES seems ok.
>>> > Even migrating from one tree to another seems ok.
>>> >
>>> > What about upgrading from 6 to 8 in the process?  Should I upgrade
>>> the GW6
>>> > to GW8 first and then migrate?
>>> >
>>> > Did I mention that they don't have any backups, so my greatest desire
>>> is the
>>> > leave the original system completely untouched if at all possible.  I
>>> know
>>> > that I have to reconfigure the agents with the new servers ip before
>>> the
>>> > final copy, so I can't stick to that 100%.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Keith Larson
>>> > Franklin Computer Services - K12 Group
>>> > (614) 561-4887
>>> > klarson at k12group.net 
>>>
>>>
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