[ngw] dbcopy as a "complete" backup solution

Steve Bogdanski bogdansk at cvm.msu.edu
Thu Apr 1 19:55:35 UTC 2010

Both.  It uses multiple instances of dbcopy, with each running multiple threads.

>>> On 4/1/2010 at 3:52 PM, "Randy Grein" <RGrein at tpchd.org> wrote:

Is reload using multiple copies of dbcopy or multiple threads? IIRC the latter and it sets the thread count more aggressively.
The /t switch controls threads , 1-10 with 5 the default.

>>> Joseph Marton <jmmarton at gmail.com> 3/31/2010 1:24 PM >>>
Yes, I remember Tay's post quite well. Fact is they're still using dbcopy for everything... just multiple instances to decrease the amount of time the backup takes, which means there's a better chance of getting something that's completely consistent. That could also be done with clever scripting.

This isn't to take anything away from Reload... just means that you don't have to use TSAs just to get a completely consistent backup of GW. You *can* do it with dbcopy. GWAVA has proven this.


On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Steve Bogdanski <bogdansk at cvm.msu.edu> wrote:

Well yeah I guess... I am pretty much going off what Tay Kratzer posted not too long ago to this exact listserv (incl. below) and don't actually use the Reload myself:
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 23:39:03 -0600
From: "Tay Kratzer" <tkratzer at state.ut.us>
Subject: Re: [ngw] Backup strategy for GW8 LINUX OES2 MAIL volume
To: <ngw at ngwlist.com>
Message-ID: <4B9EC51B.0CFA.0032.1 at state.ut.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

First I want to apologize for seeming as though I am using this list for commercial purposes. I simply want to clarify a couple of things about GWAVA Reload, and then I will agree to not send out solicitous messages with regards to GWAVA Reload, at least for a long while :-)

In our fast-paced "elevator pitch" world, too often we might not get an opportunity to understand things as they really are. So I'm going to give you an elevator pitch along with a hallway pitch if you've got 3 minutes to read this message and then 5 minutes to read a document if you are so inclined. I'll try to brief, here goes:

DBCOPY is a great - utility -, it is just that, a utility, and not a software application. Reload is a software - application - that uses DBCOPY only as a portion of what it does. There is a very good document that will backup my assertion (pun intended): http://www.gwava.com/uploads/media/reload_vs_dbcopy.pdf 

In some environments DBCOPY and RSYNC may be sufficient with proper monitoring, error checking and testing. 

The larger the GroupWise post offices and GroupWise system, or the busier the administrator, the more sense Reload makes. 

I've often heard on the list and from others that Reload is "DBCOPY on steroids". Or that Reload is "DBCOPY with a nice interface". These are both true statements and here is why:

[DBCOPY on steroids]

Reload can backup a post office with 11 separate instances of DBCOPY running. This isn't threads, this is completely separate instances of DBCOPY. One thread is going after databases, and the other 10 threads are copying down 1/10th of the OFFILES directories. Each of these instances of DBCOPY has its own DBCOPY threads that can also be increased to a factor of 5. And If your machines can handle the I/O, you can run up to 5 concurrent backups of separate post offices. The net effect is that if your machine can actually take it, Reload will run 55 simultaneous instances of DBCOPY that can be running together 275 DBCOPY threads. 

[DBCOPY with a nice interface]

Reload backups are accessible in about 30 seconds by just selecting a day, and pressing a button. Disaster Recovery with Reload is a matter of pushing one button in Reload, and letting the GroupWise system know that a POA or MTA is at a different TCP/IP or DNS address. 

Simply said, with Reload, you sleep easier at night, and in the morning you get a concise e-mail from the Reload server, where the subject line tells you if you even need to open the e-mail to read the report. 

If you are at BrainShare, I would be glad to talk to you some more about Reload. 

Best Regards
Tay Kratzer
Lead Developer of GWAVA Reload

>>> On 3/31/2010 at 4:11 PM, Joseph Marton <jmmarton at gmail.com> wrote:

So if you had a script that launched dbcopy 10x you'd accomplish the same thing, correct?


On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 1:59 PM, Steve Bogdanski <bogdansk at cvm.msu.edu> wrote:

They run something like 10+ instances of DBCOPY at once in parallel (each instance backing up a different portion of the PO) so that they are able to backup an entire PO rather fast. My guess is that is how they get a consistent backup.
-Steve Bogdanski

>>> On 3/31/2010 at 3:55 PM, Joseph Marton <jmmarton at gmail.com> wrote:

So it looks like they are able to do it... now the question is, are
they using some sort of "elven magic" or are they just using dbcopy in
an appropriate way which insures consistency?


On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Tim Jackson
<tjackson at baltimorecountymd.gov> wrote:
> FYI - This is from the Reload doc. There are several consistency settings
> within Reload.
> Consistency
> Having the consistency level turned to the highest is the default, because
> Reload then guarantees that no mail message in the Reload backup will be
> missing any portions, for instance, attachments. This makes backups take
> about 10% longer but is the best practice for good backups.
>>>> Joseph Marton <jmmarton at gmail.com> 3/31/2010 3:41 PM >>>
> I'll be curious what the GWAVA folks say. I know Reload is highly
> touted as a GW backup solution (and more), but it uses dbcopy at the
> core so if dbcopy is unable to get a valid and consistent backup...
> Joe
> On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 1:09 PM, Kevin Parris <KPARRIS at ed.sc.gov> wrote:
>> I've never seen the product, so I cannot address the question.
>>>>> Joseph Marton <jmmarton at gmail.com> 03/31/10 3:05 PM >>>
>> So does this mean Reload doesn't create a completely valid and
>> consistent backup?
>> Joe
>> On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Kevin Parris <KPARRIS at ed.sc.gov> wrote:
>>> The issue of "GroupWise fashion" file locking is misleading, and your
>>> worrying is wise. Not even dbcopy produces a properly valid consistent with
>>> all integrity intact recoverable backup of a GroupWise system -at the file
>>> level- unless the POA is stopped before the copy begins and the POA remains
>>> stopped until after the entire copy is complete.
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